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So someone now has a body of his own.
The panties are the only thing I have that really fits him. How nice that they’re green.
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Remember that time Nechama made me draw Thor as a milkmaid?
The zenith of my artistic achievements for this fandom.
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And here is where I become an even bigger nerd
I have an open eyed and dreaming eyed head for my in works Loki as Lady Loki doll
Do I do no eyebrows for both heads or give him brows on one of them, and if so, which one?
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just a friendly fyi - I actually DO really love Loki as a character and find him to be complex and fascinating and tragic, but it’s the type of tragic where you wince because he’s ultimately the one who is the root of all of his problems. I would love nothing more for him and Thor to resolve some of their issues and live together forever in happy codependency.
I just get really het up when I see the suggestion that Thor is either the villain or that Thor is to blame for Loki’s actions. Loki is to blame for Loki’s actions, just like how Thor is to blame for Thor’s. I don’t care how much sympathy he engenders or how complex his motivations are, it doesn’t remove the fact that Loki made conscious choices to do the things he did. A lot of which were really shitty and cruel.
Helshades & Co have got me thinking:
As much as I love a discussion about whether Loki’s actions were justified or just how much of a villain he is, what I’d really like to see is a conversation about what, specifically, makes him the villain and Thor the hero—both from our position as an audience and from the point of view of the Asgardians themselves. It seems a little bit unnerving to me—especially given how many people are willing to defend our adorable genocidal antagonist—that very few people are challenging Thor’s “hero” status when just three days before he saved the day he killed dozens of Jotnar because one of them called him “princess”. Sure, he can claim the moral high ground once his brother finishes his rampage, but that’s a bit like calling the person who burgles your house a hero because he stole your matches along with the rest of the loot to keep the arsonist behind him from burning it down (awful metaphor, I know, but it’s the best I can think of off the top of my head). Maybe the burglar is a hero in a way for saving your house, but shouldn’t we be a little bit unsettled that he’s also running off with your silverware? (That is, that the person we choose as our lodestar relished the slaughter of many sentient beings—far more than our villain seemed to enjoy it—while under considerably less motivation to commit such acts?)
What do you think?
While Asgardians as they are written in Marvel aren’t perfect analogues to actual Norse culture because Stan Lee admittedly just made shit up when he came across something he didn’t know and consciously changed things for the sake of the story he wanted to tell… there is precedence in Norse culture for slights to be answered with socially sanctioned and acceptable violence. Look up the custom of holmgang. Mythological Thor is generally viewed as a benevolent god who represented the common people at large and there are plenty of stories where he killed for slights against him.
In Thor’s thinking, an enemy invaded his home, violated hospitality customs, and a long standing what I assume is more of a non-involvement/non-aggression treaty than an actual peace treaty. He responded to this threat in a very direct and logical manner by calling out the offenders face to face and challenging them. They had already committed the graver offense and broken the treaty. That he was personally insulted was the final straw. The frost giants were given chance to defend themselves in combat. Thor’s real problem here was that he treated the conflict like it was a personal one and did not take in the bigger picture. He saw it only as a slight against his honour and his pride and didn’t put it within the context of the overall politics of Asgard. So yeah, it was a really fucking stupid move over all, but I can certainly understand where Thor’s motivations came from, and I don’t see them as being out of character or ultimately morally reprehensible. He comes from a warrior culture that does not attach negative stigma to most kinds of violence and has socially acceptable forms of what we would consider murder.
What turns the villain status on Loki’s actions aren’t that he killed a lot of frost giants, but the way he went about it. It’s a bit like that old debate/belief that using a gun has no honour whereas hand to hand combat or sword fighting does. Both lead to the same result, but one method is viewed as being more reprehensible than the other. The frost giants had no way to defend themselves from the Bifrost. It was not honourable combat. Whether that’s right or not…that’s up to everyone to decide. I personally think the actual villainous actions Loki took in Thor were 1.) committing treason in the first place by bringing the frost giants across to ruin Thor’s coronation and 2.) lying to Thor when confronting him on Earth.
Of course, I also think why Thor’s response to Natasha’s “He killed 80 people in 2 days” is a lot deeper than people make it out to be is because that line also applies to him and Thor knows it. In our modern society, both of them killing that many people is reprehensible. Outside of direct self defense, there’s really no acceptable murder.
Thor and Loki are both such interesting characters because they both don’t have black and white actions and motivations. Thor’s done terrible things the same as Loki has done terrible things, and they’ve both done heroic things. I think what ultimately makes Thor the hero, though, and Loki the villain, is that Thor learns from his mistakes and strives to better himself. And that’s something that Loki has always struggled with or refuses to see.
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I have absolutely no shame that my mental theme song for Loki in Young Avengers is this song.
Also does it make me an awful person that I want an AU where Loki is an annoying white hipster rapper who is constantly rebuffed by Miss America Chavez, Latina hot rod/street race legend?
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Another thought in the portrayal of Jotuns in Thor fandom, which really tends to amuse me, I know it’s problematic and I should take it a bit more seriously, is that you know most of the people contributing to the…it’s pretty much Orientalism applied to a fictional race, are doing so because they want to prove how racist and terrible the Aesir are and want to white knight the Jotun victims in their fanworks. The irony makes me laugh.
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